School of Economic Science
Plato and Aristotle in the Renaissance
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Bryan Carr

Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 34
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


thanks much for yr response. From what I've read of the Orthodox case (admittedly, not much of it, but more that I have of the Latins), they can sometimes sound as if they think the whole West went off the rails with the filioque. Since it is all too easy to trace everything back to some primoridal fault (say, the industrial revolution, or "Cartesian dualism," or nominalism, or the "invention" of monotheism, or what have you) I tend to regard these critiques cum grano salis. (I am reminded of Douglas Adams: "Some said the trees themselves had been a bad move and that no one should ever have left the oceans.") Still, as a scholar, I am bound to acknowledge that "ideas have consequences," and even if it is hard for me to grasp today "what the big deal was," I don't like to assume that I, from my far superior historical vantage, can clearly see that the controversy was pointless. I tend to remind myself that there are usually great saints involved in these disputes. Westerners sometimes lump Buddhism, Taosim and Hinduism all together too, but the arguments between sages from these traditions were equally intense.

PS. I think you are onto something when you point to the Ascension as a decisive event for Christians to understand ("It is needful that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go away, I will send her; and she will guide you into all truth").

Michael Shepherd wrote:

I'd love to know the truth about this theosophical sore point.. but really it's beyond my capabilities.

First question -- which I can't answer, but probably has had answers : why was it such a big deal ? What were the implications ?

Second question : what do you, I, they, mean by the Holy Spirit ? Why should anyone think that it's dependent on the mediation of Christ -- when it hovered over the waters in Genesis One..?

Third question : when Christ said to his disciples that when He was 'gone', the Holy Spirit would descend as a 'Comforter' -- was this a new event ? Or was it reverting to the time before Christ emerged from eternity to pass time on earth and renew the laws and prophecies of the age of Moses ?

I'm happier to stick with the questions, than the answers !

But I can't help remembering that the great temple or church of Byzantium is called Hagia Sophia, Holy Wisdom.. Did the Greeks in their wisdom, believe that the Holy Spirit had always been present in the hearts of men as 'enthousia'-- the god within ? Whereas Rome as new centre of Christendom would rather proclaim that 'No-one cometh to the Father except through Me' ?

I've never read the 'Greek case' as presented by the Greeks, in Greek.. I'm sure the clue may be there in the Byzantine archives -- if they exist..

So not much help -- I value the contemplation of the Trinity, with and after Augustine; there's little clerical advice on the subject these days ! And I'm more comfortable with the holy spirit in me, than the god or the christ...

Perhaps Joseph could be persuaded to say a word or two to help with this ?

Meanwhile, I really do mean, thanks for asking...

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John Edington

Joined: 24 Feb 2018
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was really nice discussion. I found it really useful. You may find Aristotle's tour map interesting, by the way. Can you give me a list of places where Plato visited? I couldn't find it on that site
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