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Breaking Asunder The Harmony
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Peter Blumsom



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1103
Location: Wembley, London, UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Breaking Asunder The Harmony Reply with quote

1. Hamlet’s Mill caused quite a stir when it was first published at the end of the 1960’s. Not among the swirling vapours of literary circles of course nor did it impinge upon the ingrowing toenail of what passes for academic philosophy these days. But among other, perhaps freer, minds it made more than a ripple and it is still doing so today, but in a subtle way.

It looks at the Hamlet myth and poses some important and curious questions, mainly astronomical and mythical, about the history of the human mind without which of course there would be no astronomy nor mythology.

The implications of what its authors, Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechend, are saying are perhaps too wide to be tackled on this forum, certainly by me. I would like to concentrate on a particular remark made by Santillana himself in his introduction and tease out what it could mean to a Plato Forum. Here is the quote:

“The theory about “how the world began” seems to involve the breaking asunder of a harmony, a kind of cosmogonic ‘original sin’ whereby the circle of the ecliptic (with the [attendant] zodiac) was tilted up at an angle with respect to the equator, and the cycles of change that came into being”

The ‘breaking asunder of a harmony’ for some reason I see as the invoking of the harmonic mean - a remark that will no doubt cause confusion until explained. So for the time being let's call it a kind of rotation or reversal but on an immense even universal scale. But it’s too soon to get into that without preparing the way and there are so many interesting connections that ‘the way’ is everything.

I start with Shakespeare but not Hamlet:

In As You Like It the old duke, banished to the forest, suffers the winter’s reproach:

“Here feel we not the penalty of Adam,
The seasons' difference, as the icy fang
And churlish chiding of the winter’s wind,
Which when it bites and blows upon my body
Even till I shrink with cold, I smile, and say
‘This is no flattery. These are counsellors
That feelingly persuade me what I am’”


Arden’s note is helpful on what the penalty of Adam is:

“In Eden there was eternal summer. After the Fall, earth shared the curse, see Genesis 3.17 “cursed is the ground for thy sake” and Roman’s 8.22 “For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain …” The seasons altered, the axis of the earth was tilted and it becomes subject to extremes of climate.”

‘Cursed is the ground’ points to a ‘cosmogonic sin’, something that affects the very cosmos itself, so it isn’t just about man – or is it? “No!” I hear someone say “for Lucifer and the heavy mob are also involved”. And it’s true that the curiousness of what we are discussing centres on a dilemma which needs much reflection to resolve - if it can be resolved. ‘Groaneth and travaileth in pain’ certainly maps to ‘breaking asunder’ but would such a rude interruption of eternity occur if there were no man and no human mind. This in part poses the curious dilemma.

Then Arden then points to a passage from Book Ten of Milton’s Paradise Lost, on how God commanded the angels to push the axis of the earth from its universal norm so that spring no longer “smiled perpetual on earth with vernant flowers”.

Here is the whole quote as given in HM:

Some say, he bid his angels turn askance
The poles of earth, twice ten degrees or more
From the sun's axle, they with such labour pushed
Oblique the centric globe: some say, the sun
Was bid turn reigns from the equinoctial road ...
...else had the spring
Perpetual smiled on earth with vernant flowers
Equal in days and nights, except to those
Beyond the polar circles: to them day
Had unbeknighted shone; while the low sun
To recompense his distance, in their sight
Had rounded still the horizon, and not known
Of east or west; which had forbid the snow
From cold Estotiland, and south as far
Beneath Magellan. At that tasted fruit
The sun, as from Thyestean banquet, turned
His corse intended; else how had the world
Inhabited, though sinless, more than now
Avoided pinching cold and scorching heat?"

PARADISE LOST, Book 10

Santillana himself caught Milton’s passage (HM p.377) but missed out on the Shakespeare – which of course was earlier and contains some subtleties that might be relevant later.

Plato described it best. He notes in Timaeus that the Form of the soul needed to contain two great circles, one of ‘the same’ and a second of ‘the other’. The first is that which presides over Milton’s Garden of Eden and the second is the ecliptical result of what happens as a result of man’s ‘disobediance’. Plato’s cool Greek assessment takes out Old Testament guilt, and, if we include the Statesman Myth, sets it on a rather grander stage.

I would like to unfurl all this further and will do anon but in the meantime wonder if there any comments or even insights from readers.

Pete


Last edited by Peter Blumsom on Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:15 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Peter Blumsom



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2. We may not all agree on everything, indeed, disagreement is a spur to unity, as two themes complying with the sonata-principle struggle for a greater resolution or as Socrates said in Republic that by the friction of comparison we may strike a spark which will illuminate justice for us.

In what I talked about in my first post many ends are yet to be tied together.

I think that Santillana is edging carefully towards a viewpoint which one could call neither heliocentric nor even geocentric but rather soulcentric. This is in accordance with certain precepts laid down in Plato's Timaeus. I interpret the passage at 41de as meaning that although each soul was originally allotted a star on which it was mounted 'as if upon a chariot' it was subsequently born into a (human) body. The central experience of a soul is therefore 'star-like' in its depth and profundity. This was its Phaedran 'immortality' before it suffered its Phaedran fall. One can trace the history of this fall quite easily from Phaedrus through Timaeus to the cave allegory of Republic with certain nods towards other dialogues such as Statesman.

In Timaeus it is explained how this soul was then given a (human) body and experientially things changed for the worse for that individual entity. The body, ruled by the senses, saw everything in reverse (like Gurdjieff's organ kundabuffer). We can pretty much run this story side by side with Milton's description of man's expulsion from Eden. It has also parallel echoes in the Katha Upanishad.

So although Santillana can talk of a “Harmony which is broken asunder” both parts still exist: the zodiacal world of the ecliptic and the pristine world of the fixed stars. This chimes with the provision Plato makes in Timaeus for man (man's soul) subsequently to be sown in some planetary situation with a planetary body - an 'instrument of time', as Plato puts it. This is indeed a fall - from mounted as charioteer on a star to, well, chained struggler in the cave.

To me the myth seems at times unclear but veers towards the following interpretation: there is one situation where man has star-like being, where he knows he is soul with all the ramifications of such knowledge i.e. he is aware of his immortality; and there is another situation whereupon he has forgotten all this and all he feels inclined to accept is what his senses tell him, and they tell him of body and of earth. This is not categorical in Timaeus - seldom is it in Plato, where surface uncertainty gives wriggle room for the peruser to reflect also. It is expressed as a ‘likely story’ where it takes its place alongside other muthikoi - for he makes sure we have to do our work also.

Moving on from this, it is obvious that the man of the second situation will believe himself ultimately to be a body and his environs body-composed. Astronomically he will assume himself to be some kind of animal wandering on the surface of the planet. And ‘being a body’ will also affect what he sees around him; he will know that the sun comes up the moon fadeth and that the earth stands still while the universe revolves around it.

Gradually he will learn by way of logic that the pattern of the stars tell him a different story, that the great and goodly lump of rock he inhabits, almost as a microbe, is not the centre of heavenly motions but is itself a vassal circling the sun. This however will not be what his senses tell him but what his thinking tells him. His senses will stubbornly hold on to his former view, even though he will see it as an illusion. He cannot help this, so highly does he value the product of his thoughts.

Therefore is the asundered harmony something within or a truly external cosmogonic event?

What Santillana says is that this ‘new wisdom’ in an important way takes him further from himself, from the ‘star being’ of Timaeus the Pythagorean and the earth-being his own doxa persuades him he must be. This seems to be the drift of Santillana’s thought. He puts the situation like this:

“When [man] discovers more remote galaxies by the million, and then those quasi stellar radio sources billions of light years away which confound his speculation, he is happy that he can reach out to those depths. But he pays a terrible price for his achievement. The science of astrophysics reaches out on a grander and grander scale without losing its footing. Man as man cannot do this. In the depths of space he loses himself and all notion of his significance. He is unable to fit himself into the concepts of today’s astrophysics short of schizophrenia. Modern man is facing the non-conceivable.”

What seems to happen is, if man lets go of himself he gains the cosmos, the outer filled with illimitable but sensually theoretical space, but this at the expense of his soul and all hope of inner space and, perhaps, a child-like good night’s sleep.

This is, then, another way of the schism or the breaking asunder, where the inner, which still exists (remember), no longer partakes in his thoughts, especially in his scientific (and pseudo scientific) thoughts. For it seems we can only interrogate the models brought forth by these thoughts via the ‘outer’, the asundered part. And by outer and inner in this way we are not speaking of the largeness of interstellar space or the smallness of the sub-particle for even the inconceivable dimensions that modern technology avails us of are still ‘outer’ and not, in Santillana’s and especially Plato’s terms, 'inner'. That is, they are not of the Soul.

Both authors seem to offer a third way which, because it has not been fully teased out, has no official name. Above I have called it soul-centric. This must acknowledge not only the ‘body-view’ which is correct at the level of the body but also another view, that of the soul's own self awareness.

This is the model duality I wish to explore in what I hope is an entirely novel way. If I don’t make a good fist of it you can put me in the e-stocks and chuck as much cyber fruit at me as you wish.


Last edited by Peter Blumsom on Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:26 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Tim Addey1



Joined: 02 Feb 2018
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Location: Bream, Glos. UK

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:38 am    Post subject: Breaking Asunder The Harmony Reply with quote

Peter

You've introduced some important issues here. Not the least, the difference of emphasis between the Judeo-Christian tradition's "disobedience" and the Platonic tradition's "ignorance" as the root of our various problems. Speaking as a Platonist, I think it's a pity that the disobedience side seems to be the one that our culture is still obsessing about (even amongst those who call themselves primarily secular): addressing ignorance, would, I think, be a better solution to our most pressing problems. Especially if we directly dealt with the ignorance of what we are: "know thyself" has always been the key to divine and human truth.

But leaving that aside, the Timaeus image of the two great circles of "same" and "other" seems to me to be wonderful insight into the nature of harmony: for the circle of the same is undivided but the circle of the other is divided according to the ratios which allow the sound of the moving cosmos to be other than a single note - many notes, but properly related to the one.

In the late Platonic commentaries on both the Alcibiades and the Gorgias much is made of the relation of the Good, the Beautiful and the Just: Proclus and Olympiodorus suggest that the Good belongs to the realm of the One and the Gods; the Beautiful to the eternal realm of Form; but the Just is especially the expression of the Good and the Beautiful in the realm of soul. Justice, after all, is required when reality is marked by manyness and relationships. Once the temporal world is set in motion with all its almost uncountable "bits and pieces" the only way it can cohere is by establishing just and harmonious relations between them all.

This is why, I think, Socrates continually pushes his associates towards justice: for us there is no good life except one that is just. Or harmonious. Olympiodorus in his Commentary on the Gorgias (at 0.5) says that every good constitution (whether of states or our own internal one) should be based on the pattern set before us in the Cosmos. And, of course, the Timaeus suggests (90d) that we cure ourselves of the disruption to our own circles by contemplating the harmonies and cycles of the Cosmos.

A rich and fertile area of investigation and I hope you have many contributors to this thread.

_________________
Tim Addey
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Peter Blumsom



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1103
Location: Wembley, London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for this thoughtful response, Tim. I will develop this line of thought further in my next post.
Pete
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Mark Stocks



Joined: 28 Jul 2012
Posts: 652
Location: Wood Green, London

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Pete,

Hell low ! Ow ! Wer dew I start ?

Star tinge here a blue drip sign keeps appearing below my rit tinge

How do I get rit of it ?

OK KO

Fall star t

Shall we start with some company ?

Okey doorkey and co !

Co met com et set er ra

Dotcom.com

Add mission and sub mission

Set man on his way

Eat set er ra and rock et man

Etc



ETC


-----


ET see extra tear rest real

Trial

A comet ?






Sorry Pete I didn't know how this was going to turn out. I put my finger on the screen submit penetration and..
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Mark Stocks



Joined: 28 Jul 2012
Posts: 652
Location: Wood Green, London

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A MONKEY FACE EMERGE (TRI TRIM ARTI FACT FORM)


Fffffffffffffffffffffrom the groping vision

The breaking up of a well thought out e say

Sssssssssssss ay !

The weigh of the way

Testablishment eaten t t

And ba ba boo n beaten on the forehead

On a piece of pa pa

Bar bear eons tilt tillit

Pencelf in

Write now n noun

And down

To the crowned




GOD



--------



Explained

Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h allo wing the cone fusion dome thing

Have we accessed cone fusion properly ?

Are we swayed by it ?

Do we avoid it ?

Dotcom.com

I don't feel it is too broad for this forum, but it is the focus of my fee linger which melts these impositions. It is the flashes of reading and then slowly digest the dying gestures of the harm on knee bouncy baby enjoying swimming swinging upon a tree drip life

Impoverished improvisation of a prepared MeAl

Myth er mouth er ma ma

Jee ! Oh ! Met trick !

Sit n eat

Sat a lite dish

See antenna point inout from sent er

Centaur

Horny awe knot

Dominion oneon randome at once

And animation branch out

Minotaur

Monster and moonstars

How many stars are there on the dish ?

A huge Jawsus wide open and closed

And entranced into extinction

Into exit stink and shine

Thru the light of dwher water

Causemas

The order offfffffffffffffffff er...

Cone she us

Ness

On what cone dish on...

........Eatself...


Per haps

Golden thread

The under and over estimation of the Peepole Bubble in determinotaurnation

Puffing cheeks in and out

In celebration

Water n twine

Ssshhhhhhhh champ pain win

Ch ch imp pan n see

Dome mouth

Divine words

Awe divided

Into Mumary cone seep shine

And polish words data da da

Ga ga na na she

Like my finger linger on the dome screen

Dipping thru

Kkk k k kk kk k k kkk k k k lick thunder and lightning

Standing on the belly of anonymouse mountain with wet feet

Choose day north and south celfabration

Wed ness day

And the rest

Sat urn and sun

Pete a ring words harmony

And a blue peter flag

Flagging skin of sea n sky

A mast er of globe n sun

Mast er mate n bate

Cone troll click n mouse


Flash !


And a plain piece of paper

In memory of words

And silence

Prevail

Ball point dotcom.com

Before the comet cometh

Take a deep breath

Rest fingers and thumb

Scissor ski saw icicle circle click quick ! ! !

Prepare

The celebration

Invoke the whispering thunder

The epileptic apocalypse of the being

Awe Ra



Sorry I haven't read.....

I may have thrown myself into deep water here. I don't mean to cloud clout ow ! your already explicit passage, but I hope we are not missing the point. Except to the degree of a stone I shed astonishing light upon...

A globe














Space














Tim e ye Add
Something else..















Honour














On hour know I shall cometh

On the dot com put er...

Now

Let me see..





THE GOLDEN AGREE GATE



Absolutely in agreeffffffffffffffffffffffffffment

The breaking of the mbity sssssssssssssss kin nik sky skin

Pa ra ramp it up

The bar ra king

Barred itself

From itself

Thru itself

And back ra

The door in the sky

Awe

The door in-sight

The ear th awe

Fffffffffffffffffffrom fore um

Um ba ba rella and shady writing

Gore

Gorilla knuckle walking earth

A fist at the first knock knock

With bar in hand

A tap on the shoulder drip click

Mouse th um

Awe thor

Light ! nik ! ng !

Quick k kk kk k kkk k k k k kkkk kk k ! ! !

Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h




Good buoy
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Mark Stocks



Joined: 28 Jul 2012
Posts: 652
Location: Wood Green, London

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

STORM ERNESTO


The earnest earn a nest

Ness nestle into the gorilla glass

And see

The fizzdome of love

Ffffffffssssssssssssss t t



ORM


------


Entranced by the snake

Awe

The snake

Entranced ! ! !
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Mark Stocks



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Location: Wood Green, London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOMAGE TO THE SAP (I ENTER)


The animation

Zoodome Science

And experience all the animals

The undermining and overwhelming of the sapprentice bubble wrap

From the coalmine and up

Into the ether

Each and every witch way

Twitch the mousel

Along the tram line trap

The whole muscle in front

Must cell

Eatself to itself

The same

The aim sealed

Other

The Orther

As per tundere




ZAP


------


Homo Sapien

A fine bo bo body

Bode deep

Per deeper per deep

Enter in twain wine

And sap
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Mark Stocks



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Posts: 652
Location: Wood Green, London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A FULL CAN OF SPIRITS (GOD)


Come here iron claw finger

Can

You open me can

Avoir woo orms

Common you iron fisted evil axe throwing

So and so

Hack

Thru me with all your weapons

Read my goggle eye bubble eye

That I am dotcom put back

Scissor trim like a bye cycling recycloops flying witch in the sky

Witch fingers

Copy that



SOS


-------


Mate de bate

I am Just

Awe

Am I




Just a vulcan of spirit with a loud voice and an accuse stick and elect trick room !

Making volcanoes and thunder for the hell of it

!

Where ?

There man. Theremin and a max hand controlled pitch er globe !

Cone duct !

Me can I call !

Rubbing and beating the mouse

While blowing the screen

Mmmmmmmmm ow ! Ssssssssssssss

Mus sic

Rod dent and tilt by gnawing the ignawe

Point out the dome in the sky beneath my hand

Make a grounding

The east stab leash and a cowboy from the west make a copy

Disorientation of finger pressing waves making orients bear rings

From a far



Haweven



A paranoid android with a me tall pole giving out broad

And back in formation

From Father a field

Etc etc
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Mark Stocks



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Location: Wood Green, London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Human Being

Sorry about all this Peter. Pan himself and got a bit carried away, but I'm back now.

So don't pan icc up or I'll be back again !

Anyway shall we piccup from where we left or am I talking bubbles ?

Sincerely

Human Being


PP

Ssssssssssssss is that Jesus ?
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Mark Stocks



Joined: 28 Jul 2012
Posts: 652
Location: Wood Green, London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE MONAD OF AWE (GUST A WIND)


Th..

Ow !

I Just

Bite my tongue

T



HAT


------


Thou

Art

That



Hello halo

How !

Are you ?



Awe curst entwined !



Hey ! Fever

Who !

Are you ?



A drop of reign !

And clear
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Mark Stocks



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AWE GUST IN (ITSELF)


Sancire Himself

The collarhapse of his own values

Remane

Rename

A religion ?

The reliance on someone else's throat ?

The skin of a snake !

Learn how to strangle hold yourself

See the globe move from the throat and down to the belly

And back up thru the mouth and stifle sniffled in front

A fort I chewed the sky

Hhhhhhhhhhhhhh h ear t th word sworld

The sword point before the blade arc and shoulder the offence

See apbl aid the seed offffffffffffffff er

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm arc

Awe light ahead and thru throat throw at beefffffffffffffffforehead

Itself

As moon sun and urthru

Fffffffffffffffffffffff f ear and free zsssssssssssss

Gaseous words

Ng ! Lobe drop in and thru ignorance iglook

Iceek 'th and see t

Preservation of the Seeing

Collapse word 'th worth t

Thru the absolute locality of non local consiousness

Melt and come to land yourself back on the globe

Seated swirl yourself up and above your head

Remain

And re member

As a stick in the heart

A flag unfurling

In the globe

Let it augment the argument beeffffffffffffffffffore

And fine skin finer and finer sky

Let it swirl around you

And above you

Mark it as a sign

A way




SIN


------


Awe ridge in all
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Mark Stocks



Joined: 28 Jul 2012
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Location: Wood Green, London

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IN HARMONY I TILT UP MY GLASS (REFLECTION)


Upon Witch

I....




EYE


-----


Golden gol eden

Ye hover
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Mark Stocks



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Location: Wood Green, London

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A TOUCH OF MOMPOP (MADE)


Maiden eden

Protjection scene

Untouched





AWE


-------


Tomb

Aim

Mmmmmmmmmmm

Aid in

Fall and see

And be touched

Pure tshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

And a porch

Mompop arch

March upside down

Seept tomber aqwuark the gargling earth

Mounth spoke thru heart beat

Pound pout mount above the He ad

She th th ffffffffffffffff aether

And liquid feet

Traveleth the spirit

All around

From within

The Globe

The Soul

Trance Parent

Face the fixed star

Beyond

The stars

The sizzling comet compass towards the earth

The divided sky of skin eye sneyke nose dive in

The heart at steyke rise above

The trembling heart beat of the whole earth

She va wa treble swomb fold

Wing wink eye wit witness eye see thru

Protjection Infont Immaculate

See map ma pa pa arched starched and star shed

The spinning compass cometh on the glyphs edge of the sky

The swirling gumpass enter wineth

Sssssssssssssee Ssssssssssssssee Ssssssssssssssee

The fixed star

Allow the piercing Father

The Sun and Dot

The Mother

Entranced and the heavens open

Ordered and ordained

The Divine Light

The Earth Immaculate

And a Halo
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Mark Stocks



Joined: 28 Jul 2012
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Location: Wood Green, London

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CON TOMB PLATE (AIM)


Flat

A huge floor flaw in the conscious sky

Awe a globe

Ffffffffffffffffff ate

In

Ffffffffffffffffff late

Awe all

Lateral vertex

Literal vortex con text

Con temp late awe ear lea fffffffffffffffff f all

Ng ! Lobe drop

Sound and seea

Ng ! reen n reed

Ba Ba lue drop

Urthurst con seep shine

Apl lob aplomb

Con cord

The whole universe

Untouched and aglow

A red nose

Come die

Nose dive divine

Alive !

The belly movement of the sky

Eden eaten

We aether Ba Ba hang !

A loud cry chorus

Sin sing stingy sting singe by a focused Sun

Ng ! Low and high

Open up the sky

Vent

And around we went

Ssssssssssssss till..

Hello

And a halo held ye breath by the skin of ye teeth

Forever

Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h over







LIT


----


Till...
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